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Havoka
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Post: #21
RE: Your Politics

I thought it was Marx. Groove Shoulda known, yeah?

Libertarian National Socialist Green Party? That sounds brilliant. Where do I sign up? Hehe

08.12.2007 15:39
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POTUSS
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Post: #22
RE: Your Politics

Yeah.Tongue
It's in the US of all places, the weirdos.Rolleyes
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Workers Unite! Communists and Socialists of all currents, come together under the Red Banner of SocOB!
10.12.2007 11:00
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Hagen
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Post: #23
RE: Your Politics

My opinion is, that communism isnt able to survie, in a long term. Because of the non-existence of competiton monopolys will establish, this means undersupply for the people, missing investements, and as a result missing infrastructure and missing innovations.
I think im the first capitalist here Big Grin. Generally speaking I believe in self healing abilities of markets, but I also beleive in a system of social backup, to provide everybody an humane life.

12.12.2007 19:43
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Havoka
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Post: #24
RE: Your Politics

Communism is one of the political philosophies that would work if people were less human, i.e. didn't think so much about getting ahead of everyone else, were less selfish, etc. I believe it functions well in small groups (like tribes or the Zendik Farm in West Virginia, USA), and would be hard to unite a large country like the US into one functioning 'community'. The reason I pick the US is because.. well, I live there. Rolleyes

Monopolies are established to kill the competition. If there's no competition (since everyone in a communist society would work for the community and not just themselves), a monopoly cannot be formed. Investments are also a capitalist idea, as far as I see it, so again would not be a real problem. As for missing innovations.. inventions have, at least up until the 20th century, been made to better mankind, not to turn a profit.

But these are just my thoughts, and can probably be said by those much more articulate than I, if they haven't been already. Pfeif

12.12.2007 23:55
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Hagen
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Post: #25
RE: Your Politics

Havoka Wrote:
Monopolies are established to kill the competition. If there's no competition (since everyone in a communist society would work for the community and not just themselves), a monopoly cannot be formed...


Your right monopolies kill competition, and i think competition have a lot more advantages than monopolies, lower prices, higher outpot, less profit for firms.

Havoka Wrote:
...Investments are also a capitalist idea, as far as I see it, so again would not be a real problem...


If you dont make investments, also in communist regimes, every economy will collapse. And if in a long term the net investments are negativ, you'll cant produce anymore, cause your "machines" are broken. And this drift exist in monopolies, also state-owned monopolies. One example for a market with monopolies, oil refineries in america, Wink , cause of their old technology and their inefficiency, they have to buy a huge part of the offered oil in rotterdamm, and so they push the worldmarket price of oil.

Havoka Wrote:
...As for missing innovations.. inventions have, at least up until the 20th century, been made to better mankind, not to turn a profit...


I think thats not right. Until the 20th century, most inventions came from the origin of making an advantage for himself or his group he belongs to, in other words to make "profit".

13.12.2007 02:56
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Havoka
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Post: #26
RE: Your Politics

The thing with communism, as far as my personal outlook on it goes, is that the state doesn't own anything; everything is owned by the people equally. You have just as much right to produce your own goods as I do, and all factories, industries, etc. are owned and operated by the people. If everyone has the right to everything, competition in the economy is pretty much pointless. If you produce a chair and want to sell it to me for $100 - I can just as easily make another chair that only costs me the time it takes to make it.

I half agree with your idea on inventions. Yes, most inventions are to better a person and/or the group he belongs to, but to better yourself doesn't have to amount to cash. The first person to create a guitar probably wasn't thinking about all the money he'd make - he was concerned with the sound and the music. The idea of profiting from that, I'd like to think, came later. The invention for it's own sake first, profit second.

13.12.2007 03:50
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POTUSS
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Post: #27
RE: Your Politics

I think social oppression is more detrimental to the economy than most economic policies, it's oppressive social policies that make people the most bitter towards a Government.
Under a Communist society I believe there would be more invention, innovation and entrepreneurship due to high quality education services and better funding for scientists. People will also be more willing to take risks as they have a garaunteed quality of life.
Eventually Communism will collapse just as Capitalism will collapse and just as every other major economic system has and will collapsed.
In most former "Communist" (Communist like how the Burmese GOVT is Buhddist) countries infrastructure is very good due huge public projects and increased spending.
People can be more human under Communism as they have the freedom to persue their own path in life without being forced into Corporate slavery. It is a very long process to establish the Utopia, but I think in can work well on a large scale as long as there is not absolute geographic cetralization of economic power, as that can lead to inflexibility, bad beurocracy and Government ignorance.
(Modern) European culture is really the only culture that has traditionally preached the importance of the individual over the collective, so it doesn't require a change in humanity it just require a shift in Western cultural values to more old style cummunity based "tribal" values.
P.S. And once we reach that stage there will be no need for money!Applaus
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13.12.2007 11:12
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Rowan
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Post: #28
RE: Your Politics

Good god there's a lot of Commies! I'm a Libertarian, effectively the opposite of you Commie bastards Tongue

14.12.2007 09:30
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Rowan
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Post: #29
RE: Your Politics

Havoka Wrote:
I thought it was Marx. Groove Shoulda known, yeah?

Libertarian National Socialist Green Party? That sounds brilliant. Where do I sign up? Hehe


Heh, I went to their website once, they're seriously twisted....

14.12.2007 09:37
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Hagen
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Post: #30
RE: Your Politics

Havoka Wrote:
The thing with communism, as far as my personal outlook on it goes, is that the state doesn't own anything; everything is owned by the people equally. You have just as much right to produce your own goods as I do, and all factories, industries, etc. are owned and operated by the people.


Thats no argument against monopolies. And monopolies have the effect of undersupply.

Havoka Wrote:
If everyone has the right to everything, competition in the economy is pretty much pointless. If you produce a chair and want to sell it to me for $100 - I can just as easily make another chair that only costs me the time it takes to make it.


Thats not right, even in communism it has to be decided who gets bare resources, in free markets the allocation of resources is steered by competition.
And you arent able to produce everything, this is impossible. So you have to trade, and i think the minority of mankind act altruistically, and you'll rty to get an advantage from trading.

Havoka Wrote:
I half agree with your idea on inventions. Yes, most inventions are to better a person and/or the group he belongs to, but to better yourself doesn't have to amount to cash. The first person to create a guitar probably wasn't thinking about all the money he'd make - he was concerned with the sound and the music. The idea of profiting from that, I'd like to think, came later. The invention for it's own sake first, profit second.


But a huge part of former innventions were pushed by profit.

POTUSS Wrote:
Under a Communist society I believe there would be more invention, innovation and entrepreneurship due to high quality education services and better funding for scientists.


Give me a reason why the education in a communist society should be better. I think the best way to stimulate and encourage high potentials is the competition in education (Universities).

POTUSS Wrote:
In most former "Communist" (Communist like how the Burmese GOVT is Buhddist) countries infrastructure is very good due huge public projects and increased spending.


Are you sure??

"..Burma is one of the poorest nations in Southeast Asia, suffering from decades of stagnation, mismanagement and isolation.."
"..Today, Burma lacks adequate infrastructure...Railroads are old and rudimentary, with few repairs since their construction in the late nineteenth century. Highways are normally unpaved, except in the major cities. Energy shortages are common throughout the country including in Yangon.."
Quotations from Wikipedia.com

14.12.2007 16:42
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