I would suppose following algorithm for constructing and later reworking of the map:

Begin in the middle of the map and place the first capital, at coordinates x and y of about 0. Add the next one at North (coordinates x = about 0 and y = about 1). Add the third at Northeast, x and y of about 1. Surround the first capital with six more (East, ..., Northwest) capitals.

So we have one central capital and eight surrounding ones. Let's place number 10 further North, x = about 0 and y = about 2. Again, add the following capitals clockwise (more this time). If necessary, start more circles outside the existing ones, and add the new capitals clockwise.

Ok, we placed only capitals yet, but we wanted entire states. The magic word here is: voronoi diagram. Voronoi diagrams consist of points which divide the space with borderlines between neighbouring points. Both the English and German Wikipedia show examples and suggest algorithms how to create the diagrams. With those algorithms we have basic state borders, still very mathematical and not looking realistic.

There are different approaches to this: randomly modifying the x or y coordiante of the border pixel (while looking they are still together with the neighbour pixels), replacing the straight lines by multiple straight lines of slightly changed angle, replacing them by function values, a combination of the three approaches or anything else. With some effort it is possible to guarantee each state has same size.

Some more notes:

1. This algorithm can be used to generate a lot of state borders before even one state joins the map. Or you can use it to add new borders as soon as a new state is placed on the map.

2. It allows oceans and other areas which arent state territory (for any reason). Just place multiple ocean 'capitals' and borders to the sea will be generated. Small seas could be added into state territories to the map bitmap after generating it, with another algorithm.

3. Automatically places states of about same age as neighbours, so there will be fairer wars. However, this useful effect fades as soon as the circles of capitals become bigger. Also, if you want to recycle a state territory which lost it's leader, and place a new state there, it will be surrounded by older states.

4. Of course, you dont have to start new circles at North, and you dont have to fill them clockwise. You could also go for a first circle with just four capitals, or six for hexagon strategy.

5. The coordinates with 'about' values help to let the map look more realistic. Imagine a real map with capitals exactly placed on a grid...

Oh well, perhaps it helps when it's time for the map.

Wir machen einfach einen Liberalen und Sozialistischen Kontinent. Dann können sich beide bekriegen und wer am Ende gewinnt bekommt das Land vom dem anderen (oder staaten) ^^ am besten wäre ja wenn die Sozialisten( eventuel auch komunisten ) von den Kapitalisten beherrscht werden würden. Dann hätten sie ja ihre Planwirtschaft und würden ausgebeutet. Da würde sich gleich jeder rote Bauer wohlfühlen

Sheep's suggestions sound very good, I think if they are implemented, the game would be enormously enriched!

Malone had a different idea, easier to implement but with the same potential to improve the game. Guess people will like it, so just wait for it.

EDIT: Thanks anyway.

This post was last modified: 30.03.2008 04:01 by Sheep.

This might have been adressed earlier, but with people constantly making new states, how well we keep things so that everyone has a state that's big enough to function as a state/nation? There's also the issue of deleted states which would mean the map would be continuously changing, and the upcoming military feature implies that a nation's land size/boarders could change as well. It seems like the world map will be added, but I'm just concerned with these items. Sorry to bother you with this. I wish I knew German.

Hey!

@marduke: I think, we Germans have less problems to unterstand you than the other way But forgive me, I continiue in German, 'cause thats easier for me in case of thinking and writing *lol

@ll: Also ich finde die ganzen komplexen ideen auch doof weils zu kompliziert wird. Und verbindet die karte nicht immer mit dem krieg, das gehört, finde ich, nich zusammen. WIe realisitsch isses denn, dass alle sozialistischen länder im osten sind? Kuba liegt vor der küste floridas. Und ich will nur an die ganzen anderen lateinamerikanischen staaten erinnern. Is doch firlefanz mensch - position auf der weltkarte an politische richtung zu hängen -.-

Nee, also einfach kleine, mittlere und große quadrate für die unterschiedlichen staatengrößen. Eigenschaften wie Terrain, Ressourcen, Anbindung an Gewässer (Meer, Ozean) - die drei reichen dicke. Und bei terrain dann halt hügelig, flach, etc. ... ressourcen wenig, mittel, viel *g* Ich find, man kann das echt einfach halten. Und die karten selbst zeigt das quadrat desjenigen entsprechend mit farbtupfern für die entsprechenden eigenchaften ganz primitiv. Vllt besteht n kleiner staat aus einem quadrat, n mittlerer aus vier quadraten und n großer aus 6 quadraten oder so. Die quadrate könnten dann auch jeder unterschiedliche eigenschaften haben. Das reich finde ich.

Dann gibts nur noch das problem, dass man ja nicht unendlich viel platz hat. Vllt machen wir es uns an der stelle einfach und neulinge werden einfach unten oder rechts drangeklatscht an die bestehende karte, dann sind die auch nich so nah an den alteingesessenen (was ja einige so schlimm fänden).

Aber mal sehen, was sich malone so alles hat einfallen lassen


mfG BigBob

This post was last modified: 27.04.2008 23:03 by BigBob89.

If it will be realized, then a world will contain about 100 locations for a country and any player can chose his location - under those places which are still not occupied.

Can you tlak in english

I just wanted to meantion simcountry here but I see you already did it. I think simcountry has a quite good mapping system but it probably would a little bit too complex for this game.

Simcountry allows the player to choose a state that already is on the map. If a player discontinues playing, its state becomes free again on the map.
Of course there are lots of free states, I think, for the purpose of emotional binding to the game and for improving the role-playing-aspect of ars-regendi it would be nice if the state of a player had mainly human controlled neighbours he can interact with.
In simcountry this works by self organization, because players tend to chose states with see access and if there is not space left on the coast they move more and more into the islands oder contintents inland. So the coast areas have a quite high density of player states while the inland features enough free states for new players.

And of course the simcountry maps just look cool because the include rivers, roads, railways and symbols for cities, factories or military facilities in some real-map-style.

Can anyone here speak english? i have a question to ask please.
I can't relate to your discussions because i don't know your language.
Thanks a lot..

_____________
Marvin

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